Parameter state inside Ableton 9 is not corresponding.

Sarrova-Q1 001 views9 posts
  • Sarrova-Q


    First of all, I LOVE uTonic, damn this thing is great!

    Unfortunately I have a problem with parameter states when applying program changes inside Ableton Live 9.

    My situation:

    I opened a new instance of uTonic and added some parameters (mute states, morph, ...) with Live's CONFIGURE mode.

    That way, I can see and control those parameters very easy even when the plugin is closed.

    The problem:

    When changing preset programs with a program change inside a midi clip, those parameters dodn't reflect the correct state anymore.

    For example in PRESET 1 there is a mute on sound 4.

    I change to PRESET 2 via a program change.

    Now when I look at my parameters, the mute is still on (status hasn't changed) in the CONFIGURE bank, but OFF in uTonic's PRESET 2.

    Everything works correctly when manually selecting presets but not with program changes.

    I would love this to work as this is a crucial part of my live set.

    The CONFIGURE'd parameters really need to reflect the correct state to my controller LEDs.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

  • Magnus Lidström

    I will look into this deeper as soon as I have some more time, but from what I recall there is a problem in Live that prevents me from calling updateDisplay() from MIDI program changes. If I am not wrong, any call to updateDisplay() will cause Live to stop all automation playback until you press the "back to arrangement" button. This is acceptable if the user is opening a new program manually from the GUI, but not acceptable as a result from a program change that in itself might be part of an arrangement.

  • Sarrova-Q

    Okay thank you!

  • Sebastian Rückwardt

    Hi, I report this problem again as a new topic .(2014)
    Your Report is exactly what I mean.
    After a program change Micro tonic ignored the automation envelopes in a clip.
    The clip runs in the session view .
    i use the session view from Live 9.1.6 and no Automation envelope in the arrangement .
    Best regard

  • Sebastian Rückwardt

    Hi, I forgot..
    The back to Arrangement BUTTON is not lit after a program change .

    So I can t use the back to Arrangement button .

  • Sebastian Rückwardt

    Hi, In my case the the back to Arrangement is not lit,
    So Micro tonic parameters doesn t update and show the status corect after a program change .
    For example the morph slider , after a program change from 1 to 2 with Ableton Live 9 clips
    the morphslider doesn t reflect the corect status of the automation clip envelope.
    When I use program change that comes from ableton clips in the session view Automation will be ignored.
    i can go to a clip envelope move it a Little bit and then Micro tonic Morph slider jumps to the corect Position.
    Any help please..
    Best regard

  • Magnus Lidström

    I'm not 100% sure I understand the problem report correctly but if you do a program change, all parameters will be reset to the last state of that program. This is expected behavior, and probably works the same way for all plug-ins that support program changes. Generally, overlapping automation and program changes works poorly for this reason. A plug-in cannot read automation data from a host, it can only react to immediate parameter change commands from the host. There aren't any "begin" and "end" automation events either. So Microtonic has no idea if or when Ableton might send automation data for a parameter.

  • Sebastian Rückwardt

    Hi, thx for you answer & sry for my Bad english.
    I try last week to post the problem as a new tonic but nothing appears in the forum.
    I try to write a message to the support but my log in password are not accepted to send the message.
    A little bit problematic.
    But now cool to have a answer.

    So your answer sounds or means for me that Micro tonic can not direct react onto automation when a program change is
    triggered thrue a Ableton clip .
    So it looks like that micro tonic store the last point of a parameter for a program or preset
    and when it comes to program change this will be reloaded but the Plug in can not react direct onto the Automation.
    Only when the clip automation envelope rising up or increase a tinny little bit Micro tonic react after a short amount of time but not immediately .

    So the first drum hit sounds not corect after a program change but when the Automation rising up or down then the SLIDER jumps to the corect Position .

    i try to built a midi controller performance setup with micro tonic as Drumaschine with 16 stored tracks.
    But the moving from one track (Preset) to another is really tricky in that case.
    I must rethink the setup and how can jump thrue different presets .

    Best reagard and really thx

  • Magnus Lidström

    Yes, you have understood correctly. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything I can do about it either. Plug-ins cannot ask the host for automated parameter settings. It only receives a "change parameter now" command from the host whenever the host wants it to change a parameter. I can't really lock up all knobs that have ever received such a command, especially since the same command can be used for editing patches via MIDI control. Program changes would work much worse if I tried to do that.

    Ableton however could actually do something about it. It might be a good idea if they "resent" all active parameter automation again directly after Live has issued a program change to a plug-in. You could bring this up with them.

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